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360/PS3 Need for Speed Shift

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wipf schrieb:
lonian schrieb:
wie gehabt viel zu schnell im Vergleich zum Rest,
Sorry, aber was ist das denn für ein Argument gegen ein Rennspiel. :vogel:
Burnout ist schnell bzw. zu schnell. Aber doch nicht das hier. Das sieht nach Rennsport aus bzw. fühlt sich so an.
wenn ich ihn richtig verstehe meint er nicht, dass das spiel zu schnell ist, sondern dass der Spieler zu schnell ist im vergleich zu den Konkurrenten. das sieht nicht so aus, als könnte man sich da spannende Duelle über 10 runden mit dem gleichen Gegner liefern, sondern mehr so, als ob man in einem 3 Runden rennen von Platz 12 auf Platz 1 muss, und das auch problemlos kann. -> bei einem "realistischen" Rennspiel sollte man sich aber jedes einzelne Überholmonöver erarbeiten müssen, falls der gegner keinen Fehler macht.
hier ist der Spieler aber derart viel schneller, dass es gar nicht zu duellen kommt.
Wenn ein Rennspiel mehrheitlich aus rennen besteht, in denen man innert kürzester Zeit vom letzten auf den ersten Platz kommen muss, verliert es für mich fast jeden "simulationsanspruch".

allerdings würde ich anhand von so einer Demo nicht zu sehr auf die Vollversion schliessen. gut möglich, dass die K.I. hier auf Very Easy eingestellt ist! ich hoffe es jedenfalls!
 
Ja ist mir nur aufgefallen dass das wirklich in JEDEM Video so ist. Das Auto des Spielers fährt an allem vorbei als würde der Rest stehen und das eben nicht nur hier.

Der Boxenfunk am Anfang hingegen ist schon atmosphärisch.

Wie gesagt grafisch siehts gut aus und man müsste halt mal die Einstellungen des Videos wissen bzw wie man diese anpassen kann. Die gute Grafik (sie ist ja gut auch das Cockpit und die Unschärfe durch Speed oder Crash) bringt ja nix wenn es vom fahren net passt und da fand ich die Videos jetzt net so dass ich da heiß drauf werde.

Demo werd ich mir ansehen wenn es da ist nur zwei Rennspiele in so kurzer Zeit und wenn Forza da ist werd ich eh erstmal kein anderes spielen.

Aber gut, jeder hat andere Präferenzen, ich muss ja auch dazu sagen dass ich mit Need for Speed noch nie was anfangen konnte bin auf Shift nur durch die Ankündigungen aufmerksam geworden dass es simlastig wird und es eben um Rennsport geht statt um Tuningmühlen oder Polizeijagden.
 
lonian schrieb:
Demo werd ich mir ansehen wenn es da ist nur zwei Rennspiele in so kurzer Zeit und wenn Forza da ist werd ich eh erstmal kein anderes spielen.

ich denke für Simulationsfans stellt sich gar nicht die frage, ob sie NFS:S oder Forza3 kaufen sollen. wer "echte" Simulation will, muss vermutlich zu Forza greiffen. so werde auch ich es machen. aber NFS könnte ein gutes Mittelding zwischen authentischen rennen und spielbarkeit sein, so dass ich auch ein paar freunde dafür begeistern kann :grins:
 
Mich stört die Unschärfe ein wenig.
Irgendwie ist bei jeder noch so kleinen Bewegung gleich alles verschwommen oder grau.
Glaube dass könnte eine wenig nervig werden mit der Zeit.
 
Hi!

Interview mit Ian Bell:


Will it be easy or difficult to make tracks and import them? Skins? How many ideas from Driver's Republic have transferred over to Shift, if any at all?
Ian Bell: Although we're not focusing on this as a mod platform, I have no doubt that the smart guys out there will be playing around with it sooner rather than later. The incentive will be high as this represents quite a leap in PC racers. We didn't use anything from Drivers republic.

Will the difficulty setting be as accurate as other sim games?
IB: SHIFT is built on the most advanced physics engine we've made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games. We're talking about an engine that can run unlimited threads, detailed physics parameters running at around 400 Hz on consoles. Things like tire deformation based on g-forces, tire pressures, rubber thickness, which only the most diehard sim fans will notice, but we know it's there.
We have a full realism hardcore mode called Pro that you can choose to race in from the start that will feel natural and comfortable as well as raising the bar for handling compared to anything out there (or due out soon) for all of our hardcore race sim fans. This can be combined with one of three AI difficulty levels, and on the Hard setting, the AI will fight extremely hard and give no quarter - even the most talented racers out there will find a great challenge here. The AI will block your pass attempts, take places back, make mistakes and end up overcooking corners, and will hold a grudge against you if you are too aggressive towards them.
You'll really get to know these drivers and rivals over the course of the game, and they'll get to know you and your unique Driver Profile.

Why have all the Trailers and videos shown bad driving/crashing/ sliding and not skilled driving or battling? Where are the videos showing off the realistic physics and handling if the game is supposed to be able to have a full simulation mode as well? I noticed the steering wheel never turned more than 90degrees in either direction.
IB: Our primary goal with our promo videos so far has been to relay the intensity of the driver's experience and get people talking about the game. They've been great for this purpose, helping us get the word out. All of these videos have been with a gamepad and on the more arcade settings. Expect to see some more serious racing action in our trailers as we get closer to release.

On the PC version, how many cars will be allowed on the racetrack simultaneously? The Nurburgring Nordschleiffe feels empty with less than 50 cars on track.
IB: SHIFT will have 16 cars on track simultaneously, and we've been working hard to ensure that the SHIFT experience is the same on all platforms. Additionally, a hard limit like this allows us to really push the limits of the visuals of the different systems, ensuring the game looks as good as it drives.



I'm interested in whether or not you'll be able to set your own race distance parameters, I find the 3-6 lap races unsatisfactory. I'd really like to be racing for at least 30 minutes per race and more if possible.
IB: How about 20 laps of the Green Hell against a full grid of your best mates? I think you'll be sufficiently sweaty and sore at the end of that run.

Will there be templates available to skin default cars?
IB: SHIFT has a very full featured paint shop within which you can create nearly any livery style you can imagine. The advantage of this system is that your custom skins will be seen by everyone you race against online.

Is there a changing weather and day/night feature at real time in the game?
IB: We felt we could offer a more tailored and polished experience by keeping with preset weather and times of day for different track layouts. With dynamic weather and time there are always visual compromises that we didn't want to make, instead choosing to concentrate on really beautifying our selections. While the engine is capable of racing in the rain, feedback shows a tiny percentage of players ever actually do it.

How well will the steering wheels supported, and how is the feeling with them? Will it be like in GTR2 and GTL?
IB: On PC, we are supporting as many custom controller configurations as possible, with custom control mappings, axis settings, and FFB settings all adjustable to suit your taste. I'm biased of course, but I think a panel of scientists would determine that it is a fact that SHIFT plays incredibly well with a FFB wheel.

Is there an option to turn off the blur effect at fast driving w/o turning off the effects during the accidents?
IB: On PC your anti-aliasing settings will affect this to some degree, but being dazed when in a crash is a part of racing. My advice is to avoid crashing if you don't want to see the effects. You won't notice any blur whilst driving in the same way you don't notice it in a video replay of a real race.

Will the track have good grip at the racing line and less aside?
IB: Yes



Is there an option to get into the pits, because the tires are gone and the fuel is empty?
IB: There will be no pit support.

Regarding the three difficulty modes promised. I was wondering how you plan to meet them. The method used in GTR2 and related sims (Build one hardcore physics engine, then apply all assists for new/arcade-oriented/wimpy drivers, and allow the driver to turn them off) or separate physics engines for each difficulty?
IB: There is one core physics engine underneath everything. Novice modes will not just have driving aids, but will also have a slightly relaxed driving model, slightly increased grip, and other changes to ensure accessibility while maintaining the soul of the individual cars and the soul of the SHIFT experience.

Speaking of physics engines, will this game's physics be more in line with GRID, Forza/GT, or GTR2?
IB: You can't really compare SHIFT's physics to any of those games. The physics are tuned for realistic behavior on top of the most advanced simulation engine in this generation. We'd rather have you play SHIFT and tell us how it feels. We're confident that we'll be seen as the most accomplished racer of the current generation when the demo is released.

How will the damage effect car performance in "Pro Mode"? Will the damage be only visual or will it affect performance in "Pro Mode".
IB: There are four levels to the driving model, and all driving models give you the choice of using visual damage only or 'full' (performance) damage. Again, the engine supports any level of realistic visual to physical damage but we will be tuning the levels to ensure a fun experience. Bumpers will fly off, hoods will be popped open, doors will be bashed in, and if you've got full damage on, your suspension will bend, your steering will pull or get sloppy, and your engine will be destroyed, barely limping around to the end of the race. We made the decision to keep the focus on action without critically severe punishment, since this is a racing game, not a crashing game. There will be consequences to your actions with full damage on, and it will likely destroy your race, but you will always be able to at least limp across the finish line to collect your profile points.

Will tire wear play a part during races? Will Tire wear be present in "Pro mode" and will it be real time tire wear, accelerated tire wear, or a fixed tire wear per track? Will we be able to feel the difference from cold tires and warm tires? Worn tire from new tire?
IB: Tire wear is not included in Need for Speed SHIFT.

Do cars have to be Unlocked through a career mode?
IB: Many cars are accessible out of the box in Quick Race, but if you want to customize and personalize your car, you will need to unlock it in career mode and earn the money to purchase it and buy upgrades. There are some special Reward Cars that will need to be unlocked through the career, but you will have access to at least one car in every tier so you can be competitive online from the start.

Will there be a dedicated server, or an EA owned dedicated server/cluster (if so, will there be an European server too), or a 3rd party service such as MS Live, or will it be mostly P2P coupled with a central matching server? (it's kind of important to know for those planning/willing to run a league)
IB: We're running a client server system with all the infrastructure of EA behind it. The latest information I have is that there will be a European server.



Any advanced league related features like setting weight penalties from the server, or online driver swapping?
IB: This is not included in Need for Speed SHIFT

In the last titles of NFS the multiplayer was not so much develop. In this one we'll have a good netcode for MP races?
IB: The multiplayer code in SHIFT is all new, not a recycling of old systems. The new code is solid, fast, and reliable, as you'd expect from a next-gen online title.

How will the replay and camera system work? Will Shift have a replay theater similar to GTR2 where you can save your replays and view them from multiple car and track angles?
IB: SHIFT has a short instant replay available from the pause menu, and a full replay at the end of the race.

What will you guys do to ensure to people that Shift is not a GRID clone?
IB: We have a lot of respect for Codemasters and GRID was really well executed and a lot of fun. It might seem at first glance that the games are similar, but there are several key unique points that set SHIFT apart. The first thing to mention here is our physics engine. The foundation of our physics is a much more serious simulation than what you'll see in other mainstream racing games.
In GRID, the player has a job managing their sponsors and their career progression. SHIFT's focus is on the true driver's experience, the intensity of racing, and each driver's unique style, their Driver Profile. Our opponents will react to you based on the way you've driven over the course of your career. You may be feared with a reputation for being extremely aggressive, in which case some opponents will try extra to avoid you while others will be out for revenge. If you're a respected precision driver, some opponents will try harder to block you from passing, as they'll know it will be hard to take the position back. SHIFT's focus on the true driver's experience demands the player be mindful of the moment, pushing hard, but avoiding reckless behavior. Serious consequences are a big part of racing, and key to the true driver's experience.

Will gears be mappable to keys so people can use their custom shifters?
IB: Yes.

Will the drifting be a separate mode with its own set of physics as in GRID and NFS Pro Street? OR will drifting dependent entirely on the car setup similar to Live For Speed and Richard Burns Rally
IB: Drifting in SHIFT is a different race mode, but still using the same base physics. Each car is specially tailored for drifting in drift mode, though, as any pro drifting racer would setup and tune their car specially for drifting.

What are the main differences among the way you realized Shift and your previous titles?
IB: This is big budget and mass market. Aside from that we're doing things as a team we have always done. We passionately set out to raise the bar for authentic racing games, in all areas, across all platforms.

The new graphic engine looks stunning: do you think we will see details like flat tyres in a future title (maybe the Ferrari Project, which we believed to be a more hardcore sim)?
IB: Thank you, we're very proud of the look, the team has done a tremendous job with the visuals in SHIFT. To answer your question, you will see flat tires in SHIFT with performance damage on. You will see the tire’s sidewalls flex and bend under load. It's something we've wanted for a long time and we're excited to bring it to you now.

We see that iRacing and Codemasters are using laser scanning technology in order to reproduce tracks: did your team look into it?
IB: Our track layouts are extremely realistic. This is an area where we are confident we are surpassing the competition. We use data from multiple areas to ensure this. In addition to satellite imagery and GPS data, our track modellers have studied thousands of hours of video, ensuring that the experience of racing on a real life circuit in SHIFT matches every detail of the live onboard racing footage seen. Additionally, we have been extremely fortunate to have been provided with detailed racing telemetry data from certain racing teams, which allows us to reverse engineer the nuances of a track's character through studying suspension movement, braking points, and g-forces on the real racing cars. It's not enough to simply get measurements and photos. If you want to recreate the experience, you have to know the subtleties of the track's surface contained in these data treasures that even laser scanning can't deliver. It does no good to know about a 5mm bump in the track if you have no data to show how it makes a car react. And the reaction, the experience, is what truly matters.

Will the car setup be available in NFS_Shift? If so, will it be just "an option" or will be mandatory to have a good setup in order to obtain good performances?
IB: All cars come preset with a great driving setup so everyone should be good out of the box, but you can choose to dial in the exact feeling you prefer for your driving style with an extensive setup garage.

Will the engine physic consider things like tires wear, tires compound, differential settings and other setup setting?
IB: There is a simple tuning screen for more novice players with simple understeer/oversteer type balance sliders, but for a more experienced player, they can enter the advanced setup screens and adjust all those settings that sim racers are used to having control over. Serious gearheads can adjust camber, spring rates, front/rear toe, sway bar stiffness, bump stop length, acceleration/deceleration lock and preload on differentials, fast slow bump/rebounds and much, much more, even the size of the openings for radiators and brake ducts.

About the AI, will be competitive as the great Grand Prix Legends and Grand Prix 4 ones? I see that in gmotors games the AI have been forgot to develop. In Shift, we could see cars defend position, try to overtake us and more?
IB: The AI system in SHIFT is highly advanced, and playing on Pro/Hard, even the aliens will find a challenge here. The AI will race hard, defending lines, fighting for position, and may let you out brake yourself into a corner, only to sail past you on the exit. At lower levels, we will see the AI act in a realistic way for a novice, missing brake points, going off the road, spinning out sometimes, but always knowing where the throttle is.

Will there be future race track downloads (will EA go for future DLC tracts)?
IB: We are not discussing any DLC plans at this time.

Will the FOV angle be selectable by users? Vertical or Horizontal FOV? In which range of values?
IB: FOV will not be adjustable on console. We will not likely officially support it on PC, but curious users should have no problems finding the right file to modify for their preferences.

car physics: will each different car model have a dedicated physics file? How many car and physics file in NFS Shift?
IB: Yes, each car has its own unique physics file, plus there are unique files for suspension types, tire types, gearbox types, turbo/supercharger types, engine types, etc. There are more than 500 separate physics files in the game as of now, many with dynamically changing aspects. This huge collection of files allows our physics programmers to create a detailed and realistic simulation of all of the key defining factors in car behaviour and many of the more subtle details that are missed in nearly all racing games. This is the difference that makes a player say "this just feels right!" when playing SHIFT. For example, when the tyre sidewalls flex under load in a corner, it minutely changes the shape and location of the tyre's contact patch, which in turn changes how the tyre grips the tarmac as it strains to keep hold. Without details like this a driving game can still be fun, but it can feel sterile and dead. With SHIFT we're pushing the limits of physics processing on consoles, delivering a racing experience that is alive, gripping, visceral, and believable.

changing a car will I have to change and adapt my driving style (like in P&G GTR2 mod)?
IB: Definitely. Again, this is a very authentic racer at its core, so weight/balance, drivetrain, power curves, tyre pressures, etc., will all have a big effect on how a car handles. The way you drive a stock FWD Honda Civic is obviously going to be different from a stock RWD Camaro, or the race tuned AWD Audi R8 LMS, for example.
We have a detailed advanced setup screen for those that want to tune a car for exactly the behavior that they prefer, but all inherent physics characteristics of the cars are in the game.

in NFS will we find out different tires models and physics: different tires with different brand (for example: Goodyear, Firestone, Pirelli, ...) and different performance? different tires type (soft, intermediate, hard, rain, ...) with different performance?
IB: There are 33 different tire types in the game. There’s a big difference between different tire types, stock tires and upgraded tires (improved compounds, track tires, full slicks, etc.)

will arcade mode and sim mode use the same physics engine/file?
IB: They use the same base engine, but our novice mode adds a combination of driving aids and physics tweaks (grip, etc.) to achieve a more accessible, yet still believable driving model.

what about force feedback?
IB: There is full force feedback support for all the standard wheels on console, and as you'd expect on PC with plenty of options to setup the wheel for your preferred feel.


Ciao MS8;)
 
Also kein dynamischer Wetterwechsel weil die Grafikqualität darunter leiden würde?
Egal, hatte ich auch nicht erwartet. :kaffee:
Es ist schon mal gut zu wissen, dass die bisher gezeigten Videos den Anfänger Modus zeigen, das gesehene passte ja irgendwie nie zu den Aussagen der Entwickler.
Sehr lobenswert finde ich, dass man nicht nur ein optisches Schadensmodell integriert hat, sondern eines mit realistischen Auswirkungen.
Dumm nur, dass sie aus Gründen des "Spielspasses" das Auto nicht komplett crashen lassen.
Wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, dann werden bis zu 16 Mann an den Online Rennen teilnehmen können, der "Online Modus" ist technisch gesehen komplett neu entwickelt worden und es werden in Europa "dedicated" Server zur Verfügung stehen.

Ansonsten nimmt er den Mund ziemlich voll und ich hoffe, dass sich eine Menge davon bewahrheiten wird. :)


SHIFT is built on the most advanced physics engine we've made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games. We're talking about an engine that can run unlimited threads, detailed physics parameters running at around 400 Hz on consoles. Things like tire deformation based on g-forces, tire pressures, rubber thickness, which only the most diehard sim fans will notice, but we know it's there.
 
hab damals bei prostreet auch gedacht das wird was, weil sie wörter wie "simulation" etc. ausgekotzt haben. das game war aber dann echt spreewaldgurke. bin da bei jedem nfs ein bißchen vorsichtig. mal schauen, ob ne demo kommt.
 
Da hast du natürlich Recht, aber die längere Entwicklungszeit und die Tatsache ein "gutes" und "neues" Team bei der Entwicklung zu wissen, stimmt mich wieder optimistisch. :)
 
Tobi23TS schrieb:
mal schauen, ob ne demo kommt.

laut dem Interview oben kommt eine:

We'd rather have you play SHIFT and tell us how it feels. We're confident that we'll be seen as the most accomplished racer of the current generation when the demo is released.

ich bin sicherlich auch noch etwas skeptisch, aber ich denke diesen entwicklern darf man mehr zutrauen als den letzten, die NFS gemacht haben!

ich freue mich auf die Demo!
 
Keine Totalschäden, keine Boxenstopps, kein Reifenverschleiß, kein Wetter, aber das Spiel wird in allen Belangen alle Konkurrenztitel übertreffen. Marktinggeschwätz ftw.

Bin weiterhin skeptisch, das klingt einfach zu sehr nach den Leuten nach dem Mund geredet. Aber wenn ich den Textwust richtig in Erinnerung habe steht da zumindest was von Demo. Anschauen ist auf jeden Fall angesagt.
 
Tobi23TS schrieb:
hab damals bei prostreet auch gedacht das wird was, weil sie wörter wie "simulation" etc. ausgekotzt haben. das game war aber dann echt spreewaldgurke. bin da bei jedem nfs ein bißchen vorsichtig. mal schauen, ob ne demo kommt.

Da hast schon recht, ich bin da auch noch etwas skeptisch. Obwohl bei ProStreet die Grafik ansich gut war und die Steuerung ebenfalls, so haben die öden Kurse und langweiligen RennEvents das Game zum 0815 Racer gemacht.
 
SHIFT is built on the most advanced physics engine we've made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games. We're talking about an engine that can run unlimited threads, detailed physics parameters running at around 400 Hz on consoles. Things like tire deformation based on g-forces, tire pressures, rubber thickness, which only the most diehard sim fans will notice, but we know it's there.
We have a full realism hardcore mode called Pro that you can choose to race in from the start that will feel natural and comfortable as well as raising the bar for handling compared to anything out there (or due out soon) for all of our hardcore race sim fans. This can be combined with one of three AI difficulty levels, and on the Hard setting, the AI will fight extremely hard and give no quarter - even the most talented racers out there will find a great challenge here. The AI will block your pass attempts, take places back, make mistakes and end up overcooking corners, and will hold a grudge against you if you are too aggressive towards them.

Das sind ja mal sehr große Worte. Bin gespannt, ob wenigstens die Hälfte davon wahr ist. Wer sich zu weit aus dem Fenster lehnt, kann schon mal auf die Straße klatschen. :staun:
 
Zimtzicke schrieb:
Ich bin ja guter Hoffnung, dass Shift ein wenig auf PGR rauskommt. Es ist eine Schande, dass die Serie anscheinend stirbt... :I



warum sollte die Serie sterben?
es sind doch aktuell 3-5 NFS in der Entwicklung. eines bei Criterion
davon werden manche wieder schlecht werden, andere werden vom gameplay her aus der Reihe tanzen (SHIFT) und wiederum andere werden den klassischen NFS Spirit einfangen...
 
Warum sollte PGR sterben? Nur weil der Entwickler weg ist oder gibt es andere Indizien dafür? Es ist ja nicht so als hätte man bei den MGS keine anderen Rennspielenwickler und die Lizenz besitzt man auch weiterhin.
 
PGR4 erschien Oktober 2007. Bizzarre ist weg, bei MS konzentriert man sich derzeit, logischerweise, auf Forza III. Momentan wüsste ich auch kein Team, welches sich um ein neues PGR kümmern könnte. Also wird es zumindest noch ne ganze Weile dauern, bis was neues kommt.

Ich würd mich sehr freuen. PGR war für mich im SP das beste Rennspiel dieser Gen.
 
Die Big Park Leute sollten Rennspielerfahrung besitzen und Turn10 hat ja bald auch wieder mehr Zeit. Ich mag PGR auch, aber IMO hat keiner der Nextgen-Ableger so gut unterhalten wie PGR 2 damals. Nach bereits zwei Auftritten in dieser Generation tut der Serie meiner Einsicht nach eine Pause ganz gut.
 
Bei Shift sind ja wohl einige ehemaligen Mitarbeiter von SimBin an Board. Macht also Hoffnung, dass es wirklich in eine realistische Richtung gehen würde.

Aber wie realistisch kann den ein solches Spiel sein, wenn es keinen Boxenstopp gibt? 20 Runden auf der Nordschleife und dann ist vielleicht das Rennen nach einer Runde gelaufen... :ugly: Besonders wenn man sich platte Reifen holen kann, macht das überhaupt keinen Sinn :?

Also zumindest so ein unanimierten Boxenstopp ala F2/F3 müsste drin sein.

Und zu PGR 5: gabs da nicht mal das gerücht, dass Turn 10 da dran arbeiten könnte?
 
Ich kenne das Gerücht nicht, aber unmöglich ist das natürlich nicht. Nur werden die sich halt bis Oktober nur auf F3 konzentrieren, und dann dürften für ein neues PGR irgendwas um die zwei Jahre bestimmt nötig sein.

Na ja, ich hoffe einfach, dass da noch was kommt.
 

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