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Today, 09:20 AM
Hey all,
We've got a pretty exciting update coming in for Tryndamere in the next patch. There's some fun content surprises related to it, but I wanted to talk about the mechanics side of this update;
Rage
Ever since Renekton, we've been thinking about the potential of a rage-related system to Tryndamere's Bloodlust. We've utilized the resource system to manage Bloodlust stacks;
* The bar maxes out at 100 Rage
* Each normal hit Tryndamere does to any minion or champion grants 5 Rage
* Crits grant 10 rage
* Killing blows on anything grant double the rage (10 for hits, 20 for crits).
* Bloodlust's bonus is now based on the rage you have (for both the bonus stats and the heal).
Why change this, you may be asking? A few reasons drove this:
* Tryndamere is great in mid and low elo, but really falls off in more competitive play. This is largely due to an early game that's really binary, and how hard it is to do anything if you can't dominate your lane. The rage system evens this out a little bit.
* Bloodlust is hard to understand as the opponent, and watching the buff bar is not as optimal for the user experience. By moving the same mechanics into the resource bar, it's easier to see and communicate, plus generally "cooler"
* It makes sense! Tryndamere is a barbarian that uses rage-themed skills. A Fury meter would be what we would had done if the tech were in the same state when we launched.
We think this is going to be a nice update for Tryndamere, both for players who use him and players who fight him.
EDIT: Not going to respond to any derailing in this thread, such as the obligatory "what about X champion?" This is to talk about the Tryndamere changes
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=951916
Hey all,
We've got a pretty exciting update coming in for Tryndamere in the next patch. There's some fun content surprises related to it, but I wanted to talk about the mechanics side of this update;
Rage
Ever since Renekton, we've been thinking about the potential of a rage-related system to Tryndamere's Bloodlust. We've utilized the resource system to manage Bloodlust stacks;
* The bar maxes out at 100 Rage
* Each normal hit Tryndamere does to any minion or champion grants 5 Rage
* Crits grant 10 rage
* Killing blows on anything grant double the rage (10 for hits, 20 for crits).
* Bloodlust's bonus is now based on the rage you have (for both the bonus stats and the heal).
Why change this, you may be asking? A few reasons drove this:
* Tryndamere is great in mid and low elo, but really falls off in more competitive play. This is largely due to an early game that's really binary, and how hard it is to do anything if you can't dominate your lane. The rage system evens this out a little bit.
* Bloodlust is hard to understand as the opponent, and watching the buff bar is not as optimal for the user experience. By moving the same mechanics into the resource bar, it's easier to see and communicate, plus generally "cooler"
* It makes sense! Tryndamere is a barbarian that uses rage-themed skills. A Fury meter would be what we would had done if the tech were in the same state when we launched.
We think this is going to be a nice update for Tryndamere, both for players who use him and players who fight him.
EDIT: Not going to respond to any derailing in this thread, such as the obligatory "what about X champion?" This is to talk about the Tryndamere changes
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=951916
Trynda ist leider nicht leicht zu balancen. Selbst ein kleiner Buff könnte ihn Op werden lassen. Es ist nicht so das ich finde, dass er Up bleiben soll. Er ist nur einer dieser Champs die rein von der Mechanik her sehr schwer zu balancen sind, ohne ihn Spielspaßraubend bzw. zu stark zu machen. (Wie zB Eve oder Twitch)
@Leona
Leona kann keinen Jungler im Earlygame besiegen. Super save wird sie auch nicht sein. Ich denke sie muss roamen oder eine solo lane haben die oft vom Jungler besucht wird um gut zu sein. Ihre Initiations sind sicher sehr gut, ihre CC geht in Ordnung. Leider farmt sie sehr schwach (wie man im Video von Phreak gesehen hat), wird leicht unter Druck gesetzt und ist auf Teammates angewiesen. Ich will mich nicht zu weit aus dem Fenster lehnen, aber gegen Irelia, Udyr, Lanewick, Jarvan und Alistar wird sie große Probleme auf der Lane haben. Von Ranged will ich noch garnicht sprechen. Ihr gapcloser ist ein Skillshot, der Stun proct mit ner Autoattack.
Wenn sie wirklich so schwach ist wie ich den Eindruck habe, dann werden das ein paar kleine Buffs sicher beheben. Trotzdem bin ich enttäuscht. Hatte mich auf mehr als nen lieblosen Jarvan Klon gefreut. Sonne ist ihr Motto. Warum kein Blind-Effekt?
Bis jetzt waren alle auf der E3 angekündigten Champs Mist. Yorick's Ghouls sind einfallslos und auch nur einfache Spells ohne dass das Pet relevant wäre. Erst total Up, jetzt absolut Op gepatcht. Leona, ob sie gut ist oder nicht, hat ausschließlich Skills die schonmal fast genauso da waren. Bleibt noch auf der Scorpion zu hoffen...
@Leona
Leona kann keinen Jungler im Earlygame besiegen. Super save wird sie auch nicht sein. Ich denke sie muss roamen oder eine solo lane haben die oft vom Jungler besucht wird um gut zu sein. Ihre Initiations sind sicher sehr gut, ihre CC geht in Ordnung. Leider farmt sie sehr schwach (wie man im Video von Phreak gesehen hat), wird leicht unter Druck gesetzt und ist auf Teammates angewiesen. Ich will mich nicht zu weit aus dem Fenster lehnen, aber gegen Irelia, Udyr, Lanewick, Jarvan und Alistar wird sie große Probleme auf der Lane haben. Von Ranged will ich noch garnicht sprechen. Ihr gapcloser ist ein Skillshot, der Stun proct mit ner Autoattack.
Wenn sie wirklich so schwach ist wie ich den Eindruck habe, dann werden das ein paar kleine Buffs sicher beheben. Trotzdem bin ich enttäuscht. Hatte mich auf mehr als nen lieblosen Jarvan Klon gefreut. Sonne ist ihr Motto. Warum kein Blind-Effekt?
Bis jetzt waren alle auf der E3 angekündigten Champs Mist. Yorick's Ghouls sind einfallslos und auch nur einfache Spells ohne dass das Pet relevant wäre. Erst total Up, jetzt absolut Op gepatcht. Leona, ob sie gut ist oder nicht, hat ausschließlich Skills die schonmal fast genauso da waren. Bleibt noch auf der Scorpion zu hoffen...
G
Gelöschte Mitglieder 1596
Gast
Ohja, hätte ich vielleicht mal erwähnen sollen. Kollege ist wieder da und spielt jetzt wieder des öfteren mit dem Account. Eigentlich dauerhaft. 8D
Bin deswegen erstmal wieder auf den anderen Account (NaoraHinari) geswitcht, wo ich mein Tank & AD-Build ausbaue. Und Jarvan kann nicht mehr mein Main sein, den hab ich da nämlich nicht.
Bin deswegen erstmal wieder auf den anderen Account (NaoraHinari) geswitcht, wo ich mein Tank & AD-Build ausbaue. Und Jarvan kann nicht mehr mein Main sein, den hab ich da nämlich nicht.
G
Gelöschte Mitglieder 1596
Gast
Ja. Hab überlegt auf Maokai als Main umzusteigen. 
mclaren jaja immer wieder gut ^^
softreset .. was soll denn das?
irr ich mich oder hat die community nicht zu ca. 90 auf hardreset bestanden?
wo kommen wir denn hin wenn wir jedes jahr in der NFL den Sieger des SuperBowl extra Punkte als Vorsprung liefern?
Neue Saison, neue Chance für alle OO
softreset .. was soll denn das?
irr ich mich oder hat die community nicht zu ca. 90 auf hardreset bestanden?
wo kommen wir denn hin wenn wir jedes jahr in der NFL den Sieger des SuperBowl extra Punkte als Vorsprung liefern?
Neue Saison, neue Chance für alle OO
Hardreset ist ungefähr so : Alle werden von egal welchen Elo-Wert auf einen bestimmten zurückgesetzt , Also sprich jeder fängt bei 1200 an wieder
Softreset: 1200 bleibt 1200 , weil das der eigentlich Anfang war, aus 2000+ wird ungefähr 1600-1800, Aus 1400 wird 1200 , 1000 bleibt 1000, 800 wird 1000
Die Werte werden ungefähr zu einem Punkt zum Vorteil des Spielers aufgerundet oder um ihn weiterhin Competition zu machen runtergerundet
Die Werte entscheidet dabei Riot
Softreset: 1200 bleibt 1200 , weil das der eigentlich Anfang war, aus 2000+ wird ungefähr 1600-1800, Aus 1400 wird 1200 , 1000 bleibt 1000, 800 wird 1000
Die Werte werden ungefähr zu einem Punkt zum Vorteil des Spielers aufgerundet oder um ihn weiterhin Competition zu machen runtergerundet
Die Werte entscheidet dabei Riot
Today, 11:04 PM
Hm. Okay, well, I suppose it's been a while since I've given an update so I'll chime in on this a little:
Following up from last time, the general problem(s) with long term stealth was:
1. There was no way for the opponents to get an inkling of how clever the stealth player was being, and thus there was no good way to get a sense of how that player operates.
2. Stealth is claustrophobic in the way that it makes you play.
3. Stealth gives very powerful scouting information while simultaneously hiding that information from your opponent.
We tried some iterations past the first few tests, with Paranoia, alternate resource bars, footprints, phasing and mark systems but in the end, we settled on the current system because it was the simplest solution for long-term stealth. In short: "Everyone has reduced Oracles, but Evelynn and Twitch are perma-stealthed."
Some Partial Stealth Details
Disclaimer: I fully understand this destroys a *lot* of the current stealth gameplay changes. Unfortunately, through lots of iteration, I was unable to capture the feeling of pure invisibility while in stealth while having fun gameplay. In the end, I decided to opt for a very simple system that was highly understandable over some more fiddling mechanics.
1. Evelynn and Twitch are permanently stealthed when they rank their level one stealth abilities. However, Evelynn and Twitch can be seen when they are within X units of an enemy champion (Slightly under vision range), or when they are within a true sight radius.
If they attack, they are revealed briefly for 2 seconds before going back into stealth.
This 'X' is being adjusted for feel between the two champions. 'X' is smaller than champion vision radius, so you can "stalk" an opposing champion, but it will be farther away.
2. Evelynn and Twitch have a "sight gem" above opponent's, telling them when the enemy can see them or not and whether they are "safe" (green sight gem), "warning - you are close to being seen, but still unseen" (yellow sight gem) or "being seen" (red sight gem.)
Results
Long Term Stealth, in this case, has been removed as a primary initiation mechanic but allows Eve and Twitch to cross minion vision and regular sight bubbles with impunity and sneak into brush patches by circle/stalk their opponents. Their opponents can likewise spot-check areas with their own reveal radius and create zones were stealth characters "probably aren't, otherwise they'd be seen."
The sight gem allows the Eve/Twitch player to take much of the guesswork out of figuring out when they were being seen or revealed and allows them to put more of their thoughts on clever positioning and sneaking around their opponents, especially for lane ganks.
This also lets us make them more combat oriented characters that don't immediately blow up on start. In general, this stealth has proven to be very difficult to use but allows characters to have some bluff gameplay and interesting circle/stalk gameplay in testing. Your characters can still scout, but at a highly diminished effectiveness (due to the increased range.)
In team fights, stealth proved to be less effective than before, so the character's combat viabilities are being looked at through reworks/remakes.
What is blocking us on releasing this:
1. There's a pretty big problem with the concept known as Oracle-Sweeping. We'd want to replace Oracle's elixir with someone that doesn't cause such weird gameplay but as to what would be a *good* replacement is a little up in the air.
2. General particle/kit rebalancing work - We need to heavily redo Evelynn and Twitch's kits and that comes different visuals and graphical effects.
What I am testing right now - Additionally
Sight wards as being partial motion sensors - Sight wards signalling when a hostile is moving nearby?
"Robot Chicken" scout drone
"Wriggles" for supports?
I probably shouldn't do this but as compensation, some sneaks..
Evelynn can have her stun back, because now you have advanced warning of her when she steps in. She might need a short-step-stun in order to successfully initiate. Testing required. Twitch has proven to be a slightly harder problem in internal testing.
As an aside: Hate spike is now awesome (for me, at least). Evelynn now has Champion prioritizing Lurker Spines. This makes her lane less bad.
As usual, feel free to ask questions for a little bit as I stick around. I don't know all the details of the full remake (as Live better understands that new environment). Sorry for the delay, but with Orianna/Champion pipeline and such, this has been somewhat of a lower priority for me.
Hm. Okay, well, I suppose it's been a while since I've given an update so I'll chime in on this a little:
Following up from last time, the general problem(s) with long term stealth was:
1. There was no way for the opponents to get an inkling of how clever the stealth player was being, and thus there was no good way to get a sense of how that player operates.
2. Stealth is claustrophobic in the way that it makes you play.
3. Stealth gives very powerful scouting information while simultaneously hiding that information from your opponent.
We tried some iterations past the first few tests, with Paranoia, alternate resource bars, footprints, phasing and mark systems but in the end, we settled on the current system because it was the simplest solution for long-term stealth. In short: "Everyone has reduced Oracles, but Evelynn and Twitch are perma-stealthed."
Some Partial Stealth Details
Disclaimer: I fully understand this destroys a *lot* of the current stealth gameplay changes. Unfortunately, through lots of iteration, I was unable to capture the feeling of pure invisibility while in stealth while having fun gameplay. In the end, I decided to opt for a very simple system that was highly understandable over some more fiddling mechanics.
1. Evelynn and Twitch are permanently stealthed when they rank their level one stealth abilities. However, Evelynn and Twitch can be seen when they are within X units of an enemy champion (Slightly under vision range), or when they are within a true sight radius.
If they attack, they are revealed briefly for 2 seconds before going back into stealth.
This 'X' is being adjusted for feel between the two champions. 'X' is smaller than champion vision radius, so you can "stalk" an opposing champion, but it will be farther away.
2. Evelynn and Twitch have a "sight gem" above opponent's, telling them when the enemy can see them or not and whether they are "safe" (green sight gem), "warning - you are close to being seen, but still unseen" (yellow sight gem) or "being seen" (red sight gem.)
Results
Long Term Stealth, in this case, has been removed as a primary initiation mechanic but allows Eve and Twitch to cross minion vision and regular sight bubbles with impunity and sneak into brush patches by circle/stalk their opponents. Their opponents can likewise spot-check areas with their own reveal radius and create zones were stealth characters "probably aren't, otherwise they'd be seen."
The sight gem allows the Eve/Twitch player to take much of the guesswork out of figuring out when they were being seen or revealed and allows them to put more of their thoughts on clever positioning and sneaking around their opponents, especially for lane ganks.
This also lets us make them more combat oriented characters that don't immediately blow up on start. In general, this stealth has proven to be very difficult to use but allows characters to have some bluff gameplay and interesting circle/stalk gameplay in testing. Your characters can still scout, but at a highly diminished effectiveness (due to the increased range.)
In team fights, stealth proved to be less effective than before, so the character's combat viabilities are being looked at through reworks/remakes.
What is blocking us on releasing this:
1. There's a pretty big problem with the concept known as Oracle-Sweeping. We'd want to replace Oracle's elixir with someone that doesn't cause such weird gameplay but as to what would be a *good* replacement is a little up in the air.
2. General particle/kit rebalancing work - We need to heavily redo Evelynn and Twitch's kits and that comes different visuals and graphical effects.
What I am testing right now - Additionally
Sight wards as being partial motion sensors - Sight wards signalling when a hostile is moving nearby?
"Robot Chicken" scout drone
"Wriggles" for supports?
I probably shouldn't do this but as compensation, some sneaks..
Evelynn can have her stun back, because now you have advanced warning of her when she steps in. She might need a short-step-stun in order to successfully initiate. Testing required. Twitch has proven to be a slightly harder problem in internal testing.
As an aside: Hate spike is now awesome (for me, at least). Evelynn now has Champion prioritizing Lurker Spines. This makes her lane less bad.
As usual, feel free to ask questions for a little bit as I stick around. I don't know all the details of the full remake (as Live better understands that new environment). Sorry for the delay, but with Orianna/Champion pipeline and such, this has been somewhat of a lower priority for me.
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